Who's fault is it...
Aug. 19th, 2005 12:21 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
joflasherReading tulaq's journal got me thinking about pets and responsibility.
I have a biter ... a ferret who will always test newcomers, will never be safe with most people. Tira is the dominant ferret in my little business* and relates to everyone else as being part of that hierachy. The Boy and I are firmly on top but it took a good 2 months of constant reprimands, scruffings, nose thwaps and cage time outs to get there. Even now, with her being nearly 7 and deaf as a post, she still will test us on occassion ... just to be sure we haven't weakened enough for her to advance.
Luckily, she doesn't just outright attack people or bite unprotected feet. She starts subtle. She comes up, acts sweet, does the "look, I'm cute" dance and begs to be picked up. Once she's being held, she'll lightly nip the person, either on the hand or in the bend of the elbow. If she's not immediately reprimanded in a form she understands BY THE PERSON BEING NIPPED, she'll escalate it the next time she meets that person. She's only bitten someone badly once and that was with R, whom I have little pity for. R has his own ferrets and knows how to interact with them. He used to pet sit mine when we were away, as none of my other friends really have the first clue about the little monsters. He has known my guys since they were kits and STILL refused to consistantly reprimand Tira when she nipped him. None of his were ever as dominant as she is, so he never had to deal with it constantly. Since sometimes she could get away with it, she kept trying and finally nailed him good one day when he didn't put her down when she "asked". He's better now with her and will at least cage her when she does the first nip.
For the most part, Tira doesn't get to interact with people. Most people act like R used to ... "oh, that's so mean, I can't do that, it was just a little nip". Yeah, a little nip now leads to a bleeding gash later. My gaming group knows not to pet the red eyed ferret and pretty much ignore her. For everyone else, the ferrets are caged and if someone really wants to meet one, I get out Midori**. When we have parties with small children, I go so far as to hide cage because little kids are curious and listen even less well than deaf ferrets do, with a few exceptions.
Still, no matter how careful I am, sometimes things happen. S is bad for letting the rats out when we're not looking, even after I've threaten to throw him out on his ear over it. He's been bitten a few times now, once hard enough to bleed. He KNOWS he shouldn't mess with Tira and deliberatly goes out of his way to interact with her just to see if he will get bitten this time ... like a kid poking a fire to see if it'll really burn him.
So I have a biter, with all that entails. If a stranger gets bitten because of my neglect, its my fault. No arguement. But in a situation like with S? Creature is contained, person with more than the standard amount of intelligence deliberatly goes through that container, ferret reacts as expected and bites...whos fault is this? Mine for having a creature that bites? That's what the court would say. S, for not having the sense god gave a goat? That's what I say and have repeatedly told him. What if the person is a child, like with my brother's horde?
I've been lucky so far, noone she has bitten has reported her. I hope the luck holds as long as she lives...
____________________________________________
* Just as you have a pack of dogs or a gaggle of geese, the plural for a group of ferrets is a business.
** Midori is a sweet heart to everyone and will even let small children drag her around my her head. No, I didn't sanction that. Despite having my ferrets locked in their cage, in a closed room, my brother's children still managed to get to find them. Luckily, they grabbed the "nice" ferret. Insert a good 20 minutes of "how to be carry the skinny teddy bear nicely" here. By the end of the week, despite being repeated reprimanded for getting into the ferret cage and a number of different locking mechanisms, we still had 3 bitten hands out of the four kids. Luckily, my brother is of the "own dumb fault" line of reasoning where his kids are concerned. God protect me from clever little fingers.
tulaq's journal got me thinking about pets and responsibility. I have a biter ... a ferret who will always test newcomers, will never be safe with most people. Tira is the dominant ferret in my little business* and relates to everyone else as being part of that hierachy. The Boy and I are firmly on top but it took a good 2 months of constant reprimands, scruffings, nose thwaps and cage time outs to get there. Even now, with her being nearly 7 and deaf as a post, she still will test us on occassion ... just to be sure we haven't weakened enough for her to advance.
Luckily, she doesn't just outright attack people or bite unprotected feet. She starts subtle. She comes up, acts sweet, does the "look, I'm cute" dance and begs to be picked up. Once she's being held, she'll lightly nip the person, either on the hand or in the bend of the elbow. If she's not immediately reprimanded in a form she understands BY THE PERSON BEING NIPPED, she'll escalate it the next time she meets that person. She's only bitten someone badly once and that was with R, whom I have little pity for. R has his own ferrets and knows how to interact with them. He used to pet sit mine when we were away, as none of my other friends really have the first clue about the little monsters. He has known my guys since they were kits and STILL refused to consistantly reprimand Tira when she nipped him. None of his were ever as dominant as she is, so he never had to deal with it constantly. Since sometimes she could get away with it, she kept trying and finally nailed him good one day when he didn't put her down when she "asked". He's better now with her and will at least cage her when she does the first nip.
For the most part, Tira doesn't get to interact with people. Most people act like R used to ... "oh, that's so mean, I can't do that, it was just a little nip". Yeah, a little nip now leads to a bleeding gash later. My gaming group knows not to pet the red eyed ferret and pretty much ignore her. For everyone else, the ferrets are caged and if someone really wants to meet one, I get out Midori**. When we have parties with small children, I go so far as to hide cage because little kids are curious and listen even less well than deaf ferrets do, with a few exceptions.
Still, no matter how careful I am, sometimes things happen. S is bad for letting the rats out when we're not looking, even after I've threaten to throw him out on his ear over it. He's been bitten a few times now, once hard enough to bleed. He KNOWS he shouldn't mess with Tira and deliberatly goes out of his way to interact with her just to see if he will get bitten this time ... like a kid poking a fire to see if it'll really burn him.
So I have a biter, with all that entails. If a stranger gets bitten because of my neglect, its my fault. No arguement. But in a situation like with S? Creature is contained, person with more than the standard amount of intelligence deliberatly goes through that container, ferret reacts as expected and bites...whos fault is this? Mine for having a creature that bites? That's what the court would say. S, for not having the sense god gave a goat? That's what I say and have repeatedly told him. What if the person is a child, like with my brother's horde?
I've been lucky so far, noone she has bitten has reported her. I hope the luck holds as long as she lives...
____________________________________________
* Just as you have a pack of dogs or a gaggle of geese, the plural for a group of ferrets is a business.
** Midori is a sweet heart to everyone and will even let small children drag her around my her head. No, I didn't sanction that. Despite having my ferrets locked in their cage, in a closed room, my brother's children still managed to get to find them. Luckily, they grabbed the "nice" ferret. Insert a good 20 minutes of "how to be carry the skinny teddy bear nicely" here. By the end of the week, despite being repeated reprimanded for getting into the ferret cage and a number of different locking mechanisms, we still had 3 bitten hands out of the four kids. Luckily, my brother is of the "own dumb fault" line of reasoning where his kids are concerned. God protect me from clever little fingers.
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no subject
Date: 2005-08-19 08:40 pm (UTC)The people who are bitching about being bitten by my dog do NOT live with him...but I don't think this in any way diminishes their responsibility to behave correctly with the dog.
While avoiding him is a solution, it's only a temporary one, a band-aid, really, that doesn't actually deal with the problem. Of course I will do my best to keep the dog from them...but you know...
this is my house...
what if M shows up unexpectedly and Xander is loose in the house? What if Xander somehow escapes his confines while M's here, which has been known to happen? What if...what if...what if.
The fact of the matter is, training is the only viable method that's going to solve the problem.
That, or M not showing her face here at all.
Were I not in a poly family, that'd be my solution.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-22 01:23 pm (UTC)I read my mistake in your journal as far as the living situation. The way
Thing is, training for my biter MUST be done by the bitten party or it just doesn't work and most people aren't willing to take part in correcting her.
Tira is well towards the end of her lifespan. I've had her since she was 6 weeks old, she's never been abused, there is no "excuse" besides her being full of piss and vinegar and pride. I got her the same time as Midori, they were raised together, they've had the exact same training.
I have some of the BEST trained ferrets I've ever seen and that's not bragging. Mine reliably use the litter box, barring illness. They reliably come when they are "called", although "calling" Tira involves pounding on the floor. They have a number of tricks they know. They have been broken of foot biting. Still, Tira bites. I've done more with these rats than a good 75% of ferret owners have even tried, yet I have a biter.
At this point, I have given up the training route. There isn't any good way to communicate to a ferret that others are off limits. A low level dog knows not to touch the pack leader's toy. A low level ferret is free to do whatever it wants unless the higher ferrets wants the toy back. Its a direct "NOW" social system with no sense of ownership.
I protect people who come to my house but some people bypass that protection. Where does my responsibility end and other's begin? If you break into a lion cage and the lion eats you, is it because the lion trainer was lousy at his job? Or is it your fault for being a dumb ass?